PIA Has Lost My Business

edited February 2016 in Feedback

Today I contacted PIA's support in regards to Netflix.  I just browsed the forums and also found that PIA refuses to do jack about the retarded concept of geoip blocking for content.  Personally, I think it's one of the dumbest things that is done.  All the movie industry is doing is pushing people towards pirating.

You have people, such as myself, who are willing to pay for content (e.g. Netflix).  Movie industry then tries to lock content to specific countries.  Why?!  To me, it's illogical.  If people are willing to pay for the content then why block them from accessing it?  I'm a software developer.  I have basic DRM on my software.  Personally, I really could care less what country a person is from that buys my software.  I also create and sell access to content.  Once again, I could care less what country they are accessing it from.  As long as they paid to access it.

Yes, I know there are criminals from certain countries that will illegally download my stuff.  Welcome to the Internet!  However, it's a fact that if you start pissing off your customers, then they will stop paying and start gaining access to it illegally.  Then, the movie industry moans and groans about lost sales due to pirating.

Anyway, back to PIA.  I contacted support.  The tech support basically told me they will not assist me in illegally accessing content.  Are you serious?!  That ROYALLY pissed me the hell off!  How about your tech support ask questions BEFORE jumping to conclusions.  I'm a U.S. citizen accessing PIA from the U.S.  I don't appreciate being labeled as a criminal when all I told the rep was that I was trying to access my Netflix account and got the proxy error message.

Since PIA is going to buckle under the mighty fist of the movie industry as well as accuse their customers of being criminals, PIA has lost my business.  When my account comes up for renewal in July, you can bet your left nut sack that I will not be renewing my account.  I will be looking for a VPN provider that doesn't buckle as well as doesn't flat out accuse their own customers of criminal activity.

I did save a copy of the chat transcript for future reference as I will be posting my review of PIA on as many sites as possible.


Comments

  • edited February 2016
    You're not the only one who feels this way. VPN is a highly competitive industry, so there are plenty of good options out there if you're unhappy with PIA.

    I'm testing out a competitor's vpn on a free 3 day trial account. They have some history with proactively circumventing blocks, and they promise to continue doing so as companies like Netflix get more and more aggressive. I've tried out a number of their servers and none of them are blocked by Netflix or BBC iPlayer. I can even log into all the private tracker sites I'm a member of, which is something I've never been able to do with PIA. I'm pretty excited about that!

    I'm also very impressed with their tech support. Although they don't specifically advertise a smart dns service it's pretty obvious they're doing some pretty slick stuff in the dns department, including ddns.
  • cool! What's the service called? I am very interested in it.
  • @Aviotes, feel free to PM me if you like. However, I think it bad form to mention a competitor here by name on PIA's forum.
  • Today I contacted PIA's support in regards to Netflix.  I just browsed the forums and also found that PIA refuses to do jack about the retarded concept of geoip blocking for content.  Personally, I think it's one of the dumbest things that is done.  All the movie industry is doing is pushing people towards pirating.

    You have people, such as myself, who are willing to pay for content (e.g. Netflix).  Movie industry then tries to lock content to specific countries.  Why?!  To me, it's illogical.  If people are willing to pay for the content then why block them from accessing it?  I'm a software developer.  I have basic DRM on my software.  Personally, I really could care less what country a person is from that buys my software.  I also create and sell access to content.  Once again, I could care less what country they are accessing it from.  As long as they paid to access it.

    Yes, I know there are criminals from certain countries that will illegally download my stuff.  Welcome to the Internet!  However, it's a fact that if you start pissing off your customers, then they will stop paying and start gaining access to it illegally.  Then, the movie industry moans and groans about lost sales due to pirating.

    Anyway, back to PIA.  I contacted support.  The tech support basically told me they will not assist me in illegally accessing content.  Are you serious?!  That ROYALLY pissed me the hell off!  How about your tech support ask questions BEFORE jumping to conclusions.  I'm a U.S. citizen accessing PIA from the U.S.  I don't appreciate being labeled as a criminal when all I told the rep was that I was trying to access my Netflix account and got the proxy error message.

    That is Netflix's problem, not PIAs.

    Since PIA is going to buckle under the mighty fist of the movie industry as well as accuse their customers of being criminals, PIA has lost my business.  When my account comes up for renewal in July, you can bet your left nut sack that I will not be renewing my account.  I will be looking for a VPN provider that doesn't buckle as well as doesn't flat out accuse their own customers of criminal activity.

    I did save a copy of the chat transcript for future reference as I will be posting my review of PIA on as many sites as possible.


    They aren't buckling under anything. Accessing Netflix from a VPN/proxy is against their TOU, so I suggest you take it up with them instead of scapegoating PIA for something they have absolutely no control over.
  • edited March 2016

    Anyway, back to PIA.  I contacted support.  The tech support basically told me they will not assist me in illegally accessing content.  Are you serious?!  That ROYALLY pissed me the hell off!  How about your tech support ask questions BEFORE jumping to conclusions.

    That is Netflix's problem, not PIAs.

    Since PIA is going to buckle under the mighty fist of the movie industry as well as accuse their customers of being criminals, PIA has lost my business.

    They aren't buckling under anything. Accessing Netflix from a VPN/proxy is against their TOU, so I suggest you take it up with them instead of scapegoating PIA for something they have absolutely no control over.
    @JustPassingThrough, I'd be pretty upset about such rude treatment too. In fact I've been treated very much the same by PIA customer support, not just on this issue but several others too. They're not exactly known for manners, and they are known for jumping to conclusions. They owe you an apology but, unfortunately, I know from personal experience you won't be getting one.

    @Cather749, we've had this argument before. I'm glad to see that you're no longer arguing that "It's illegal for PIA to help its customer to access geolocked content." Now you're saying it's only "against their TOU." So thanks for taking that far more moderate position, and it's one we can now agree on.

    However, let me reiterate that PIA unilaterally and without warning modified their TOS to no longer support geolock circumvention after they had for several years advertised it as a primary function of their service:

    image
    You've been dismissive about my concerns, just as you're being rude and dismissive about the concerns being raised in this thread too. But the reality is that a company's track record of conduct with its customers is a strong indicator of how it will treat its customers in the future. If PIA would pull a stunt like this with geolocking it's not at all far-fetched to suppose that, at some time in the future, they may unilaterally and without warning amend their TOS and "no longer support" P2P as well, and they could use exactly the same "legal" arguments to justify doing so.
  • tomeworm said:

    Anyway, back to PIA.  I contacted support.  The tech support basically told me they will not assist me in illegally accessing content.  Are you serious?!  That ROYALLY pissed me the hell off!  How about your tech support ask questions BEFORE jumping to conclusions.

    That is Netflix's problem, not PIAs.

    Since PIA is going to buckle under the mighty fist of the movie industry as well as accuse their customers of being criminals, PIA has lost my business.

    They aren't buckling under anything. Accessing Netflix from a VPN/proxy is against their TOU, so I suggest you take it up with them instead of scapegoating PIA for something they have absolutely no control over.
    @JustPassingThrough, I'd be pretty upset about such rude treatment too. In fact I've been treated very much the same by PIA customer support, not just on this issue but several others too. They're not exactly known for manners, and they are known for jumping to conclusions. They owe you an apology but, unfortunately, I know from personal experience you won't be getting one.

    @Cather749, we've had this argument before. I'm glad to see that you're no longer arguing that "It's illegal for PIA to help its customer to access geolocked content." Now you're saying it's only "against their TOU." So thanks for taking that far more moderate position, and it's one we can now agree on.

    However, let me reiterate that PIA unilaterally and without warning modified their TOS to no longer support geolock circumvention after they had for several years advertised it as a primary function of their service:

    image
    You've been dismissive about my concerns, just as you're being rude and dismissive about the concerns being raised in this thread too. But the reality is that a company's track record of conduct with its customers is a strong indicator of how it will treat its customers in the future. If PIA would pull a stunt like this with geolocking it's not at all far-fetched to suppose that, at some time in the future, they may unilaterally and without warning amend their TOS and "no longer support" P2P as well, and they could use exactly the same "legal" arguments to justify doing so.
    Yes, it would be illegal for them to assist users in breaking the law, as it is illegal to access iplayer from outside the UK. If facts are rude and dismissive to you, then I'm sorry.
  • tomeworm said:
    But the reality is that a company's track record of conduct with its customers is a strong indicator of how it will treat its customers in the future. If PIA would pull a stunt like this with geolocking it's not at all far-fetched to suppose that, at some time in the future, they may unilaterally and without warning amend their TOS and "no longer support" P2P as well, and they could use exactly the same "legal" arguments to justify doing so.
    Not true.
  • edited March 2016
    Yes, it would be illegal for them to assist users in breaking the law, as it is illegal to access iplayer from outside the UK. If facts are rude and dismissive to you, then I'm sorry.
    It is rude and dismissive to keep saying "It is illegal" and then refuse to provide any evidence of such alleged illegality. I've challenged you on this before and you have yet to provide a shred of evidence that it's "illegal to access iplayer from outside the UK." Same goes for Netflix. The fact is it is not illegal. If it were illegal you'd be able to provide the statute or case law to substantiate your claim. You cannot do so because it doesn't exist.

    BBC most certainly has a company policy that restricts viewing BBC content outside the UK. Netflix also has a company policy governing what and where its customers may view its content. Company policy in no way governs what is legal vs. illegal. So stop conflating company policy and law.
  • tomeworm said:
    Yes, it would be illegal for them to assist users in breaking the law, as it is illegal to access iplayer from outside the UK. If facts are rude and dismissive to you, then I'm sorry.
    It is rude and dismissive to keep saying "It is illegal" and then refuse to provide any evidence of such alleged illegality. I've challenged you on this before and you have yet to provide a shred of evidence that it's "illegal to access iplayer from outside the UK." Same goes for Netflix. The fact is it is not illegal. If it were illegal you'd be able to provide the statute or case law to substantiate your claim. You cannot do so because it doesn't exist.

    BBC most certainly has a company policy that restricts viewing BBC content outside the UK. Netflix also has a company policy governing what and where its customers may view its content. Company policy in no way governs what is legal vs. illegal. So stop conflating company policy and law.
    Are you serious? Can you not read? Accessing BBC iplayer from abroad violates their licensing agreement. That is a LEGAL CONTRACT!
  • Are you serious? Can you not read? Accessing BBC iplayer from abroad violates their licensing agreement. That is a LEGAL CONTRACT!
    Any such legal contracts are between BBC and their content providers.

    It's apparent you understand little about law, and that includes contract law. I have no contract with BBC. PIA has no contract with BBC either. It's not possible  to violate a contract you're not a party to, nor is it "illegal."

    As for Netflix, I happen to be a customer of theirs. In signing up for their service I agreed to comply with their terms and conditions. In that sense it might be argued that I have a contract with Netflix, and they with me. A failure to comply or breach of said contract on my part could result in Netflix terminating my services, and that could happen if they discover that I'm using a vpn to bypass their geolocking. End of story. They wouldn't be ignorant enough to accuse me of committing some "illegal" act. 

    PIA has no contract with Netflix, but even if they did it would only be a "breach of contract" for them to assist their customers in circumventing Netflix's geolocks. It would not be "illegal."

    These aren't difficult concepts to grasp, so I can only assume you remain truculent in your use of the term "illegal" purely for the scare factor you hope it elicits.
  • tomeworm said:
    Are you serious? Can you not read? Accessing BBC iplayer from abroad violates their licensing agreement. That is a LEGAL CONTRACT!
    Any such legal contracts are between BBC and their content providers.

    It's apparent you understand little about law, and that includes contract law. I have no contract with BBC. PIA has no contract with BBC either. It's not possible  to violate a contract you're not a party to, nor is it "illegal."

    As for Netflix, I happen to be a customer of theirs. In signing up for their service I agreed to comply with their terms and conditions. In that sense it might be argued that I have a contract with Netflix, and they with me. A failure to comply or breach of said contract on my part could result in Netflix terminating my services, and that could happen if they discover that I'm using a vpn to bypass their geolocking. End of story. They wouldn't be ignorant enough to accuse me of committing some "illegal" act. 

    PIA has no contract with Netflix, but even if they did it would only be a "breach of contract" for them to assist their customers in circumventing Netflix's geolocks. It would not be "illegal."

    These aren't difficult concepts to grasp, so I can only assume you remain truculent in your use of the term "illegal" purely for the scare factor you hope it elicits.
    Accessing content that is not licensed in your region is unlawful. That's just a fact. Therefore, the assistance of PIA in achieving this would potentially make them liable, undoubtedly the reason why their legal counsel advised them to make this change. Unfortunately, their customers (such as you) do not understand the law enough to comprehend this, that's not your fault, obviously you are not a lawyer.
  • edited March 2016
    Accessing content that is not licensed in your region is unlawful. That's just a fact. Therefore, the assistance of PIA in achieving this would potentially make them liable, undoubtedly the reason why their legal counsel advised them to make this change. Unfortunately, their customers (such as you) do not understand the law enough to comprehend this, that's not your fault, obviously you are not a lawyer.
    I won't talk about my own legal expertise or my professional experience since it's really none of your business. But I take no offense in your passing judgment on me. I could hardly be offended by someone as manifestly ignorant of law as yourself.

    Thankfully there are other vpns, including those also based in the US, who don't share yours and PIA's view that bypassing geolocks is in any way "illegal." They will gain customers at PIA's expense and the likelihood of any adverse legal consequences to them are remote. They too retain legal counsel and have considered these same matters at least as much, or more, as PIA.

    So continue on being rude and obnoxious toward PIA customers who express their legitimate displeasure with PIA's abrupt about-face. A more diplomatic response would be prudent. But feel free to go on insulting them and leave those people with an even more sour taste in their mouths than they already have. If your intent is to harm PIA's business even more than they already have themselves you're doing a fine job of it.
  • edited March 2016
    Well, you can continue to be ignorant of the law and/or PIA's business decisions all you want, that is your own issue to sort out.
  • Nice argument you two have.. but looking at the Netflix terms, the only thing I see about geoblocking is this:

    "You may view a movie or TV show through the Netflix service primarily within the country in which you have established your account and only in geographic locations where we offer our service and have licensed such movie or TV show."

    It doesn't say I am not allowed to do something. It just says "may". And as far as I see it. May doesn't seem to hold the meaning of prohibiting or ordering someone to do something. 
    "v. a choice to act or not, or a promise of a possibility, as distinguished from "shall" which makes it imperative."

    Disclaimer: I am no law guy. 
  • Anyway, back to PIA.  I contacted support.  The tech support basically told me they will not assist me in illegally accessing content.  Are you serious?!  That ROYALLY pissed me the hell off!  How about your tech support ask questions BEFORE jumping to conclusions.  I'm a U.S. citizen accessing PIA from the U.S.  I don't appreciate being labeled as a criminal when all I told the rep was that I was trying to access my Netflix account and got the proxy error message.

    Since PIA is going to buckle under the mighty fist of the movie industry as well as accuse their customers of being criminals, PIA has lost my business.  When my account comes up for renewal in July, you can bet your left nut sack that I will not be renewing my account.  I will be looking for a VPN provider that doesn't buckle as well as doesn't flat out accuse their own customers of criminal activity.


    I had exactly the same response from their 'customer service' - an absolute joke. I was so pissed of I cancelled my subscription and told them in the feedback survey what exactly I thought of the business behaviour. I still have about 9 months left on the service but am now very closely looking at other VPNs, who actually care about their customers.
  • @wmdan73, if you'd like a recommendation feel free to PM me.
  • I am looking to another VPN--have cancelled mine because of super slow speeds using PIA --many others having the same issues--
  • I find it odd that P.I.A. is conveniently not mentioning their geoblocking on their home page where new customers subscribe for a service that's not what they expected.
  • Soho324 said:
    I find it odd that P.I.A. is conveniently not mentioning their geoblocking on their home page where new customers subscribe for a service that's not what they expected.
    PIA is not actually geoblocking anything. They are just a US company abiding by stupid US laws. If they unblock geolocked content they are guilty of a felony and will be shut down. Stop bitching about this. Or at least bitch at the idiot lawmakers that made everything this way.

    PIA does not own the entire Internet. They are a big VPN, but overall a small company. They cannot dare to defy laws they do understand. The legal system is beyond screwed up, and is responsible for this travesty. Not PIA.

    If you care as much as you sound like you must, you should contact senators and congressmen and tell them what a shitty job they are doing and how you will never vote for them so long as they are the yes men (and yes women) of the media trolls.
Sign In or Register to comment.