PIA app vs router config - huge speed difference

p6468101

I got PIA a week ago and used for few days with windows app running. Was and still am very happy with it as it is, the speed are ok (around 30mb/s), everything working having no leaks, etc. - great!

So I've  decided to move PIA from windows PC to ​a tomato router. And now I have speed capped at max 10mb/s on the fastetes server (tried all of them from the list) 

Why is there such a difference in speeds? 

I follewed the instructions from here: https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/forum/index.php?p=/discussion/comment/17814#Comment_17814

I'm on Netgear WNR3500Lv2 with latest shibby

Wasylij

reason is they know whether you connect from pc or router and throttle so you do not have too many clients, they also put some stupid posts router has not enough processing power just ignore these

OmniNegro

I got PIA a week ago and used for few days with windows app running. Was and still am very happy with it as it is, the speed are ok (around 30mb/s), everything working having no leaks, etc. - great!

So I've  decided to move PIA from windows PC to ​a tomato router. And now I have speed capped at max 10mb/s on the fastetes router (tried all of them from the list) 

Why is there such a difference in speeds? 

I follewed the instructions from here: https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/forum/index.php?p=/discussion/comment/17814#Comment_17814

I'm on Netgear WNR3500Lv2 with latest shibby

The router has a weak CPU. It is a 480 Mhz CPU. The Asus AC68U has a 800
Mhz dual core CPU, and the Netgear Nighthawk AC1900 has a 1 Ghz dual
core CPU.

What list did you read that told you this was the fastest?

reason is they know whether you connect from pc or router and throttle so you do not have too many clients, they also put some stupid posts router has not enough processing power just ignore these

There is no throttle with PIA. And I have no idea what you even mean by "they also put some stupid posts".

p6468101

I came up with CPU thing on my own and it is just not true. The usage of CPU/memory on router never went over 60% during prolonged load :-?

Uh.. my mistake about fastest router. It was supposed to be fastest server from PIA list of servers

I've disabled PIA on router reinstalled on PC - and its back to normal speeds

Also worth point out is that it is the BEST result I got from one of the servers. The rest are at max 4-5mb/s and the same slow servers have no problem pumping 30mb/s so - YES PIA are throttling routers 

A friend of mine has asus rtn-18u @ 800mhz running tomato so I'll be able to check how the CPU performance impact speeds..

OmniNegro

Can you actually explain how PIA even could throttle all routers but not the client? Frankly I think you are just making that up. OpenVPN is OpenVPN is OpenVPN. 'Nuff said.

If you want to continue believing they can magically deduce you are using a router as your OpenVPN client and then throttle you only on that connection, then I will gladly hear it. But I will not bother to amuse you with a response if you have nothing more than a wildly abstract claim that your router was even remotely honest with you about CPU usage while it dropped packets it could not process.

To the VPN, any OpenVPN client is the same. (With few exceptions that never apply here.) They do not physically have any capacity to determine what client is attempting the OpenVPN connection.

OmniNegro

By the way, the Asus RT-N18U has a single core Arm-9 CPU at 800 Mhz.

For a small price increase, you more than double the performance with the AC68U.

And if you care to read the OpenVPN Router Speeds thread, there are many people who can confirm it manages 50 megabits per second with ease. (That is a Dual core 800 Mhz CPU.) So I blatantly reject your claim that "the same slow routers have no problem pumping 30mb/s". That statement is only true if they are not bothering to use decent encryption.

I started the original OpenVPN Router Speeds thread years ago, and remade it last year when it was lost due to a malicious user. Believe me when I say that I know what I am talking about.

I will be here if you want to speak on the subject. Good day.

Wasylij

"Can you actually explain how PIA even could throttle all routers but not the client? "

Similar way they block AES encryption on routers, why do not talk to your boss at PIA for details?

OmniNegro

"Can you actually explain how PIA even could throttle all routers but not the client? "

Similar way they block AES encryption on routers, why do not talk to your boss at PIA for details?

They do not block AES on routers or vanilla OpenVPN. They just implemented AES in their own client before OpenVPN had it. And the two while being mathematically the same are still different enough that AES via OpenVPN does not work with the PIA VPN servers.

It is a complicated problem. And would be fixed by now if they had the qualified staff to rewrite the client and server software. See here for details.
https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/pages/jobs

And just for your information, I do not and have never worked for PIA or any parent company nor any subsidiary. Moreover, I doubt anyone besides the programmers that wrote the client and server software even has as much of a clue about the subject as most of the technically inclined customers like myself.

p6468101

OmniNegro  - you are very weird dude 

I began thread to find a solution to an issue. I like PIA and got myself a 12month subscription. 

I don't think you really read other ppl posts. My friend has asus router and i can go to his home have a few beers with him and try setting up PIA on his router. So really don't care how much it costs or is it better than the other one.

Didn't suggest PIA blocks traffic but I think there is something wrong with the setup (don't know and don't really care on whose end) )cause the windows app and router config are significantly different.

I just just don't want  to use windows app and get remotely similar results running PIA from router. If my router will be the limiting factor - I'll upgrade it. 

OmniNegro

OmniNegro  - you are very weird dude

I just just don't want  to use windows app and get remotely similar results running PIA from router. If my router will be the limiting factor - I'll upgrade it. 

I am weird. No offense taken.

So what sort of speeds do you need to manage? If under 50 megabits per second will work, then as I said before, the Asus AC68U is the best you can get. (At around $200 USD) Flash it with Merlin for the best results. (Merlin is a Tomato build.) If you need more than that, there are many options. But a direct trade off in complexity and potency and price. Tell us what you need and we can tell you the best options for you.

Just in case you are wondering, I am a bit obsessive. I have an ancient WRT54GL router that makes yours look like a jumbo-jet by comparison to a tricycle. So I keep up on the routers as a hobby only. I have not even seen a router made in the last decade. Weird is an understatement.

But we are here to help. (Crazy people like myself actually do read through all the posts here, and a few are really quite helpful.)

mephisto

I just recently bought RT-N66U and am not able to get more than 13Mbps out of it. Tried latest Tomato-Shibby and Merlin today, same result. Can the 600mhz core not handle more than this? Have 50/5 connection. Getting the full 50 with no vpn. For some reason download speed is over 100Mbps with pia windows app on local pia server. Been trying to read as much as possible here on the forums. Sorry if this is dual thread. Can anyone advise please, thank you!

OmniNegro

I just recently bought RT-N66U and am not able to get more than 13Mbps out of it. Tried latest Tomato-Shibby and Merlin today, same result. Can the 600mhz core not handle more than this? Have 50/5 connection. Getting the full 50 with no vpn. For some reason download speed is over 100Mbps with pia windows app on local pia server. Been trying to read as much as possible here on the forums. Sorry if this is dual thread. Can anyone advise please, thank you!

No worries. I think I covered it in the OpenVPN Router Speeds thread.

cosmoxl

I just recently bought RT-N66U and am not able to get more than 13Mbps out of it. Tried latest Tomato-Shibby and Merlin today, same result. Can the 600mhz core not handle more than this? Have 50/5 connection. Getting the full 50 with no vpn. For some reason download speed is over 100Mbps with pia windows app on local pia server. Been trying to read as much as possible here on the forums. Sorry if this is dual thread. Can anyone advise please, thank you!

Yep, the N66 has not the dual core ARM CPU of the AC68, etc.  So, it's not near as good at crunching numbers.

rchunter

I've got a Asus RT-N18U on the way.... It will replace my RT-N16 as my main router.  I plan on turning my old Asus N16 into an access point.  Shibby already has the firmware available for the RT-N18U.
Can't wait to test it out....

slave

There is definitely something wrong here. I did few tests with my Asus RT-AC68P router running AsusWRT-Merlin and here are the comparisons:

No VPN

Speeds: 111.61 Download / 12.41 Upload
CPU: 26% Core 1 / 9% Core 2

PC VPN US East

Speeds: 104.18 Download / 11.49 Upload
CPU: 27% Core 1 / 8% Core 2

Router VPN US East

Speeds: 33.12 Download / 11.52 Upload
CPU: 27% Core 1 / 56% Core 2

Now keep in mind that this is a RT-AC68P which has a dual core Broadcom BCM4709 chipset running at 1000GHz each.

[email protected]:/tmp/home/root# nvram show | grep clkfreq
size: 46194 bytes (19342 left)
clkfreq=1000,800
[email protected]:/tmp/home/root#

Branjo

@Slave, I am getting the exact readings as you and I am on 75 down and 11 up. The problem (I think) is the encryption. The router CPU is encrypting on the fly meaning a slower connection. I could be wrong but I figured this would be the case instead of the OS doing it which would be no problem for a modern CPU.
 
EDIT: I am also using the latest Merlin, 378.55
 
P.S. Just a quick question to someone who knows about all this jibber jabber, When I use the VPN through the router AC68P, what is the encryption? Does it default to the lowest in the app settings? i.e. the 126bit/Sha1/2048 ?

OmniNegro

Blowfish or AES. Either in 128 bit mode. If you use port 1194 or something different, then it will be Blowfish. If you use port 1196 only then it will be AES-128.

trakx

Just seeing this thread.  Can you tell me whether it's preferable to apply vpn to each of my devices when they access the internet, or the so-called "whole house" setup where I configure my router?  I've got the Asus RT-AC68U with merlin build.  Is speed the only potential downside to setting it up in the router itself?

marcm

Great Thread. Just stumbled upon it today after picking up Asus AC68U router and joined forum after reading thread. I'm a total newbie with VPN. Out of work post shoulder surgery so decided to finally retire my old WRT54GL (with one external antennae broken and disabled in my Tomato setup). I've spent a lot of time reading online. Ordered a refurb TP-Linl WR842nd and Linkysy E1200 but then realized I need more crunching power. Just found out today that since I am with T-mo I can get the Asus TM-AC1900 (which is a RT-AC68U with firmware mod for T-mo) for $25. I even got that fee waived by rep so free router.

Just want a little advice on how to configure my home network. I just switched to Verizon fios but have their minimum 50/50 service.

I have a plex server on my old laptop and a Roku for Netflix, Amazon, etc.

I live alone so it's just my video steaming and use of laptop (wired ehternet) and phone and tablet with wifi.

would like VPN for torrent downloads and remote access.

Can I just use stock firmware or should I flash Merlin?

Am I better off with a third party VPN sevice or just setup server on router?

Should I use a dual router setup or just the Asus router maybe with one band dedicated for VPN?

Thank all.

Any suggestions very welcome!

OmniNegro

You should use Merlin. It is reversible in case it does not work for some reason or you simply do not like it as much as stock firmware. I would only use one actual router. If you use any more, use them in switch mode only, and be mindful of the fact that the wireless channels are being shared between you and your neighbors. (Meaning if you have a bunch of routers in use, you could use every channel and limit what your neighbors can use.)

marcm

You should use Merlin. It is reversible in case it does not work for some reason or you simply do not like it as much as stock firmware. I would only use one actual router. If you use any more, use them in switch mode only, and be mindful of the fact that the wireless channels are being shared between you and your neighbors. (Meaning if you have a bunch of routers in use, you could use every channel and limit what your neighbors can use.)

Thanks much OmniN. I will flash Merlin. Do I need to install additional VPN software?

Also appreciate the tip on being a good neighbor!

OmniNegro

marcm said:

You should use Merlin. It is reversible in case it does not work for some reason or you simply do not like it as much as stock firmware. I would only use one actual router. If you use any more, use them in switch mode only, and be mindful of the fact that the wireless channels are being shared between you and your neighbors. (Meaning if you have a bunch of routers in use, you could use every channel and limit what your neighbors can use.)

Thanks much OmniN. I will flash Merlin. Do I need to install additional VPN software? Also appreciate the tip on being a good neighbor!

Once you have the VPN setup on the router, you will not need to use any VPN software on the devices connected to it again.

marcm

OmniNegro said:

marcm said:

You should use Merlin. It is reversible in case it does not work for some reason or you simply do not like it as much as stock firmware. I would only use one actual router. If you use any more, use them in switch mode only, and be mindful of the fact that the wireless channels are being shared between you and your neighbors. (Meaning if you have a bunch of routers in use, you could use every channel and limit what your neighbors can use.)

Thanks much OmniN. I will flash Merlin. Do I need to install additional VPN software? Also appreciate the tip on being a good neighbor!

Once you have the VPN setup on the router, you will not need to use any VPN software on the devices connected to it again.

I was hoping I could set the router up to do all the vpn and not have to have vpn on any connected devices. Is this possible?

Thanks

OmniNegro

marcm said:

OmniNegro said:

marcm said:

You should use Merlin. It is reversible in case it does not work for some reason or you simply do not like it as much as stock firmware. I would only use one actual router. If you use any more, use them in switch mode only, and be mindful of the fact that the wireless channels are being shared between you and your neighbors. (Meaning if you have a bunch of routers in use, you could use every channel and limit what your neighbors can use.)

Thanks much OmniN. I will flash Merlin. Do I need to install additional VPN software? Also appreciate the tip on being a good neighbor!

Once you have the VPN setup on the router, you will not need to use any VPN software on the devices connected to it again.

I was hoping I could set the router up to do all the vpn and not have to have vpn on any connected devices. Is this possible?

Thanks

Yes. That is quite possible. There are even guides for how to do it. I think this is the closest to what Merlin looks like, but it has a slightly different GUI.
https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/pages/client-support/tomato-vpn

Please do not hesitate to ask if you have any further questions.

marcm

Thanks again OmniNegro. You are very helpful!

I just got finished setting up the router with factory firmware on my network. I will play with the VPN function a bit and then flash Merlin tomorrow.

I'll likely be taking you up on your offer of more help!